While the bodies of those murdered in Manchester by Salman Abedi the Islamic savage had probably not yet been identified by relatives, whilst those injured by the attack were still in perilous condition in hospital, some from the Muslim community were exploiting the attack to promote their usual ‘Islamophobia’ bullshit. I speak here of the mendacious grievance-mongering Taqiyya artist Fiyaz Mughal of the Tell Mama organisation. His primary concern following the atrocity was not the scale of the atrocity, but instead, whining to the Guardian newspaper about ‘Islamophobia’.
Just like he and his organisation have done following other Islamic atrocities, such as the Westminster attack and the Islamic murder of Lee Rigby, Fiyaz Mughal (see image below), found that he just couldn’t respectfully keep his gob shut after Manchester and continued to flog his ‘Islamophobia’ dead horse to just about anyone who would listen.
Here’s the relevant section of the Guardian piece written by Jamie Grierson where Mughal plays the same diversionary and dishonest ‘backlash’ guff as he’s dished out before. As is usual policy for this blog the original text is in italics whereas this blog’s comments are in plain text.
Fiyaz Mughal, founder of Tell MAMA, which monitors and records Islamophobic hate crimes, said there had been a “measurable” spike in incidents targeting Muslims in the last 24 hours, including verbal abuse, spitting and headscarfs being pulled from the heads of Muslim women:
Would these be the sort of alleged incidents that Tell Mama regularly have a fit of the vapours about, but which sometimes, as in the case of the Muslim woman who falsely claimed that she was ‘hijab pulled’ following the Bataclan attack, turn out to be absolute lies? Judging by Tell Mama’s previous record I would say that they were. It’s basically the same spiel that Mughal comes out with every time there is an Islamic attack. It’s all ‘oh woe is us, people say nasty things to us’ with Mughal I’m afraid.
After the major terrorist incident we have seen a measurable spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents coming into Tell MAMA.
Measurable by what standards Mr Mughal? By your own dodgy organisation’s standards or maybe by the standards of the politically bent tame academics that you use to make your organisation look respectable and to bamboozle the naive?
The pattern has been followed in this case, with a time lag and then a measurable spike of hate incidents. These range from general street level abuse to online hate and threats, and the Oldham mosque case of arson after Manchester. So there is a clear measurable spike.
So apart from the alleged arson (which may even have been Muslims torching their own mosque, after all it’s not an unknown occurrence), all that Mughal has to whine about is people saying nasty, but possibly true things about Islam to Muslims and people expressing justifiable anger at yet another Islamic attack. It’s not a lot in the way of reprisals is it Mr Mughal? If this is all Tell Mama have found to to whine about then it looks as if the British taxpayer really isn’t getting good value for the £181k per year that is granted to the Tell Mama organisation are they?
Mughal said there was not as dramatic a spike after the Westminster attack in March that claimed the lives of five people, including a police officer:
The reality is that each terrorist attack is unique in the impacts that it causes. The Westminster terrorist attack, we assumed, would cause a spike in anti-Muslim hate incidents and it did not to any major level. The spike was small and clearly, in relation to anti-Muslim hate incidents, the impact was low.
Therefore, who is attacked through terrorism seems to be related to how much of a blowback effect there will be against communities and Muslims, if a member of the community is the perpetrator. So each situation is unique, but Manchester clearly affects us all given that innocent young children and their parents were targeted.
Here we see Fiyaz Mughal desperately trying to spin the fact that there has been very little in the way of genuine crimes, not just nonsense ‘hate speech crimes’, but real crimes against Muslims, despite an Islamic savage murdering 22 people including a number of children. Although very little in the way of revenge attacks have occurred that does not stop Fiyaz Mughal from giving it all the ‘oh the calamity’ lines just as he always does when Muslims kill.
As regards the aftermath of the Westminster attack I’m not sure I believe Mr Mughal’s claim that there was any sort of genuine ‘spike’ in attacks on Muslims following this attack. After all it’s the same shtick that he’s played before when Muslims have gone on the rampage. With Fiyaz Mughal it’s all ‘don’t look at the mangled bodies, instead look over there at my tales of woman who’ve had their hijabs pulled, or who’ve been told in no uncertain terms, that Islam is not a religion of peace’.
If you examine what Fiyaz Mughal says in the final paragraph then you will see that he’s still talking about a ‘blowback’ that hasn’t occurred to any meaningful degree. Despite this Fiyaz Mughal is still playing the ‘Muslims are victims’ game and playing that game on our money, money that could be much better spent elsewhere.
The only proper and truly moral way to respond to the Manchester Islamic attack is to grieve for the victims and to condemn the attack unequivocally and even express anger at the ideology that was behind this atrocity. Fiyaz Mughal’s response to the Guardian was nothing like that. Fiyaz Mughal used the bombing for yet another of his ‘boilerplate’ whinges about how Muslims are victims, but this time he appeared to do this even before all the bodies from this terrible attack were identified. It’s long past time that this grievance monger and the rest of the charlatans of Tell Mama were removed from the public teat and I hope that one day we will have a government with the balls to do just that.
Links
Guardian piece giving Fiyaz Mughal ‘time to whine’
Tell Mama and the scandalous amount of public cash they receive
Tell Mama claim that getting criticism about there work is a form of ‘hate crime’
Tell Mama engage in dishonesty again
https://www.fahrenheit211.net/2016/01/25/tell-mama-again-plumb-the-depths-of-honesty/
Tell Mama busted by Daily Telegraph for lying about ‘Islamophobia’ following the Lee Rigby murder
Tell Mama leave fake story on their site for over a year until public pressure causes them to remove it
As were you lot exploiting this tragedy to attack immigration and refugees.
I think you will fidn that those of us from the ‘Islamo-sceptic’ community haven’t been doing what the Muslim grievance mongers have been doing which is diverting attention away from the real victims, those killed in the various Islamic atrocities, to the fake victims of the ever mythical ‘backlash’. It’s a diversionary tactic dont’ look at the blooded bodies from the Islamic atrocity look over there at the woman whose had her hijab pulled. The critics of Islam are honest those who defend Islam are often not
I would say many have. The likes of Tommy Robinson and Anne Marie Waters were quick to rush after last Monday’s horrors to cry “I was right”.
Also what I say was these people make the attack all about them by constantly wailing that they are being labelled as racist far right etc etc.
If you want to play the game of “22 people were killed so who gives a fuck about your feelings” with Muslims then we can do the same with these right wing grievance mongers who cried “wahhh I’m being called racist and a fascist”. Well boo hoo, kids were slaughtered at a pop concert but what matters is that your feelings were hurt cos someone called you racist. Why should it matter? You won’t die from it.
I saw Paul Joseph Watson sneer “people being mean to Muslims is what matters more than children being blown up”. Ha, and when a white man goes and shoots up a school the first thing the likes of PJW do is go looking for people blaming all white men and crying that “feminazis” are using the actions of one white man to blame all white men and demand that all white men be held responsible.
Some feminists wrote that “toxic masculinity” was to blame for what went down in Manchester and the alt right screamed “you’re blaming all men”. Oh so it’s not ok to blame all men for anything but blaming all Muslims is ok.
Yes.
I’m afraid that I have a number of things that are more constructive than debating with Leftist TM fans and defenders of Islam. As I said I have given you an extensive amount of time answering your queries and there can be no doubt that you understand the position of myself and other writers on this blog therefore tghere is little to be gained at this time in engaging with you and going other ground that has already been covered. You are welcome to po continue to post here but I am disinclined to waste much more time on leftist mouthpieces such as yourself. as I said I was once you but I grew up
I would say you haven’t grown up and your assertion that anyone who disagrees with you is a defender of Islam shows your immaturity.
“Oh you don’t think it’s ok to punch a Muslim in the face? You defender of Islam”
You have no argument so you are backing out. Laughable.
Oh I grew up alright. I realised that although every human is equal, ideologies and indeed cultures are not equal and Islam is not equal to my own culture. The left’s insistence that every culture is equal to ours runs counter to all available evidence. I also realised the left didn’t have all the answers on a number of things ranging from freedom of conscience to economic matters. As I said I grew up and realised that socialism doesn’t work and neither does multiculturalism.
As I have stated numerous times before, I do not approve or call for Muslims to be punched in the face. However, I dont’ think that neither individual Muslims nor the wider Muslim community should be shielded from negative opinion regarding Islam. For example: The Islamic prophet and founder Mohammed, was a bad man he wasn’t a fallible but decent man like Moses and he wasn’t archetypal figure of perfect love as conjured up by Christianity. Mohammed was a piece of shit. We should therefore be free to tell Muslims and the Islamic community as a whole,if we wish, that their prophet was piece of shit and explain why and Muslims should put up with that because that is the price tag of living in a free society. There’s a world of difference between punching someone in the face and telling them that their ideology stinks. Unfortunately there are number of people and groups that tend to conflate the two. Put it this way if there was a Jewish suicide bomber (unlikely I know) about then I’d expect to have to take negative comments about Judaism because of that. Muslims should put up with negative views about Islam because it is deserved and not shout ‘Islamophobia’ all the damn time. It’s crying wolf it really is.
I’m not backing out far from it but I have noticed that I have given you an awful lot of time and been very patient with you and have answered your questions and dealt with your points. I have not blocked you and your leftist views although I understand that some other writers have done so, but have instead engaged with you over a number of days. I have done this in spite of your name calling or when you have smeared other commentators here by saying that they wish violence on Muslim children. I’m not ‘runnign away as you put it’ but I have spent an awful lot of my time dealing extensively with your queries but I need to move on to other things and other people. You’ve asked me questions and I’ve given you answers despite your rudeness, now it’s time to ask you a question: Do you think the ideology of Islam is problematical?
Muslims are the victims..
You believe only Muslims are victims of Muslim terrorists? You live a world where only non Muslims get killed by terrorists.
The first victims of Islam are other Muslims then comes the non Muslim victims. Muslims are not however being victimised by Western society instead a sigmificant minority of Muslims are victimising non Muslims as we can see across Europe
May I ask is your problem with any group opposing anti Muslim hatred per say or just Tell MAMA?
I am opposed to those groups such as Tell Mama and groups in the USA such as CAIR which routinely lie and obfuscate when it comes to alleged attacks on Muslims. Both Tell Mama and CAIR have promoted cases that have been found to be either false or which are not as these groups have painted them. Both these groups also have a profound antipathy to the idea that Islam, which is an ideology like any other, should be freely debated and if necessary criticised. CAIR’s talking up the idea that anti Islamic words are the equivalent of violence and Tell Mama’s public association with groups and campaigns which are in favour of speech restrictions, is evidence of their hostility to freedom of speech, especially freedom of speech about Islam. As regards whether it is right to hate Islam, then it is right to hate iedologies which are hateful and destructive and Islam is such an ideology. i don’t think that individual Muslims should be physically attacked in any way merely for being Muslim I think that someone getting a punchin the face is assault whether the victim is Muslim or non Muslim, but Muslims should not be shielded from words or comments that express an antipathy to Islam or which mock the individuals association with such an ideology. TM want anti Islam or comment stopped adn that would be bad for our society as a whole
Can you show me where Tell MAMA etc have tried to stop criticism of Islam?
How about their close association with Hacked Off for starters or their promotion of the ‘dont fund hate’ campaign which was a thinly veiled attack on newspapers that ahve the temerity to publish articles critical of Islam.
Your are saying any comment against attacks on Muslims is a distraction from those killed by terrorists?
Those who used the terrorist attack on Manchester to bash immigration etc didn’t stop to think of the victims they rushed to say “look at me I was right”. Disrespectful.
No doubt if lefties used a school shooting to attack gun ownership rights you’d accuse them of exploiting the victims .
The ‘Oh look at the terrible Islamophobia’ cry that goes up from gps like CAIR and TM is used as a way to distract frm the real victims onto the fake ones
So you’d prefer it if nothing was said about reprisals on Muslims?
What fucking reprisals? Thee has been no meaningful or serious reprisals against ordinary Muslims. Nothing like in fact the sort of shit that German Britons got in WW1 from the mobs. What has been remarkable about the British situation re Islam is that the followers of this disgraceful ideology called Islam have killed so many and abused and maimed so many and pissed so many people off, yet they have been left remarkably unmolested in the circumstances. Decrying reprisals is one thing but lying adn spinning which is what some groups do is a tally different matter. And I’m afraid tht that is your lot from me as I have far better thigns to be writing
I would say you haven’t grown up. Your rush to label anyone who disagrees with you as a defender of Islam is as immature as it comes.
You have no argument so you are running away.
One of the commentators on your blog clearly has called for violence against Muslims. From your piece on burning rage..
“I support agree with people you quoted but not named – thousands times over! Does this horrific crime had to happen to finally wake people up to face the root of evil – that horrid cult of islam?! I am a peaceful person myself, but my feeling in response to that is : eye for an eye. Those who go to mosques and worship that murderous cult, those who pray for murdering those who are not part of it, and especially those in power who appease and cover up that evil – they are all guilty, they all have blood of innocent victims on their hands. That innocent blood calls to us…”
States quite clearly she agrees with the people you quoted, which were people making calls for violent actions against Muslims. Would this not include Muslim children?
“There’s a world of difference between punching someone in the face and telling them that their ideology stinks. Unfortunately there are number of people and groups that tend to conflate the two. ”
I agree there is a difference between criticising someone’s religious beliefs and attacking them physically but there are some people and groups who take criticism of Islam to the next level of wanting harm upon Muslims.
And you conflate not wanting reprisals against Muslims with saying that Islam cannot be criticised. Which I have never said.
You can say someone’s ideology stinks but it’s little point telling each and every Muslim this. I’m hardly going to go to my local Muslim owned chicken shop and tell him I think Islam is retarded, he probably wouldn’t give a fuck what I think so what a waste of time.
I don’t think anyone who follows a religion should be shielded from hearing that their religion is wrong. But again I have no wish to run into a church and tell them that Christianity is in my mind is absolute rubbish.
There’s a difference between criticising a religion and an ideology in print or on TV or radio and going up to people and telling them their religion stinks. I wouldn’t go out of my way to tell Christians I think their religion is full of shit, there’s a time and a place and that’s what blogs etc are for.
Do I think the ideology of Islam is problematic? Yes but I do not see it as the cause of terrorism, in the sense that just because someone follows Islam they will become a terrorist, which is what you seem to suggest.
No religion makes someone a terrorist, yes their strict radical beliefs play a part but there has to be some other underlying cause such as a general lack of respect for human life, a sense of narcissism and self righteousness and general all round stupidity. You have to be stupid to go and blow yourself and other people up.
I have seen and heard the mad ravings of Islamic extremists wankers like Adjem Choudhary and find them laughable and moronic. Him and his mad group Islam4UK were in my area handing out leaflets saying alcohol is evil and should be banned.
I challenged one of the leafleting morons on this and he contradicted himself saying that alcohol has some benefits. I said to him “but you are saying it’s evil” and he just looked at me..no brains.
See I think all religion is dumb, and yes I know you are going to say “but not all religions blow people up”, yes that’s true but that doesn’t make those religions any less stupid. Anyway its not the religion that blows people up it’s people.
As for Jewish suicide bombers and reprisals I am sure you’d be angry if Jewish people faced hatred if such an unlikely attack occurred. Nobody would tell you not to be or that by doing so you are disrespecting the attack’s victims.
You said: “One of the commentators on your blog clearly has called for violence against Muslims. From your piece on burning rage..
“I support agree with people you quoted but not named – thousands times over! Does this horrific crime had to happen to finally wake people up to face the root of evil – that horrid cult of islam?! I am a peaceful person myself, but my feeling in response to that is : eye for an eye. Those who go to mosques and worship that murderous cult, those who pray for murdering those who are not part of it, and especially those in power who appease and cover up that evil – they are all guilty, they all have blood of innocent victims on their hands.
That innocent blood calls to us…”
States quite clearly she agrees with the people you quoted, which were people making calls for violent actions against Muslims. Would this not include Muslim children?”
Firstly how did you feel when you heard about this latest Islamic atrocity? Did you greive? Were you angry? Were you frustrated that yet again we have been attacked yet again? That our faces have been spat in by those who Britain has taken in and helped? I was fucking livid. I imagined that it could be my child blown to pieces by an ungrateful dangerous savage. I can understand if not condone vehement anger not just at the terrorist and his immediate network themselves, but also the wider Muslim community that has done very little to deal with their jihadist problem. The silence, lack of action against extremism along with the lies that we’ve been told by Muslim community leaders makes the whole Muslim community in Britain look complicit in the atrocities and the crimes this is especially the case when Muslim communities are found to have sheltered Jihadis or ignored their presence. Of course I understand that ‘it’s not all Muslims’ It’s not after all the Ismaili or Ahmadhi Muslims who are murdering for Allah is it? But it is a widespread enough problem outside of those paths that you can’t really blame people for not wanting this ideology or it’s practitioners anywhere near them or their families or even in their country. Killing British children has crossed a line for many Britons and it has made many people justifiably angry and have been expressing that anger. That anger, I must admit is not always expressed by others in a manner that I would express this anger but I will not condemn the commentators description of the death cult of Islam it is an evil authoritarian violent ideology. Their condemnation of those who pray for our murder, the mosques which allow such preaching, the Muslims who by their silence give tacit approval for jihad and the Quislings to appease Islam, is spot on. These are indeed all guilty. I’m afraid that you are catastrophising here, is nothing in that quoted text that a reasonable person could construe as an incitement to harm muslim children. The vehemence was plainly aimed at the mosques, the silent Muslims and the Quislings. The commentator is correct the blood of these innocents does call to us, it could have been my child killed or your child killed it doesn’t matter what should not be in dispute is that there is an urgent need to deal effectively with the current problems. I’d rather the legit authorities do this rather than the mobs do this for the reasons I have given previously.
As to one of yourother points re the ‘punch in the face’ see my other previous answers. Only those who punch in the face are responsible for the face punching nobody else. Is the writer of Batman responsible for some misguided kid thinking that his Batman costume cape will allow him to fly off the kitchen table? Of course not.
I’m with you on the difference between telling someone their ideology is shit and punching them in the face. Just because some people may be hotheaded doesn’t mean that expressions of disgust about this death cult should be repressed, personally I think the growing public disgust about Islam is justified and it’s heartening to see that the vast majority of people are able to discern the difference between Islam and Muslims. As I said before remarkable toleration in the face of appalling aggression from a significant minority of Muslims.
Tell Mama which you appear to support, are very much in favour of censorship re Islam
I’m not suggesting that people should run into mosques or chickenshop screaming their heads off but we sould be much more criticial of Islam with the muslims we know socially. Things will never change in Islam unless there is some pressure some criticism when it is justified. I agree that there is a time a place and a medium to criticise Islam but we are seeing very little of such criticism of Islam from the mainstream media at the moment. I think we do need to publicly debate Islam adn it’s a debate that Muslims need to hear and be involved in but the debate cannot be sanitised, Muslims will have to put up with being ‘offended’ in this process just as Christians were ‘offended’ by textual examination of scripture. It woudl be nice if the BBC did have open debates about Islam instead of ramming a dishonest verion of it down our throats.
I agree with you on the character traits of suicide bombers. However theyprobably would not be suicide bombers if they were Methodists or Jains
Choudhury is a clown but a dangerous clown. Even though he contradcticted himself when you debated him and his oppos (nice one by the way) his groups have produced some nasty terrorists. you are entitled to beleive that religions are dumb but not all religions are the same some are more nasty than others.
Finally as for the ‘Jewish suicide bomber’ analogy I would dislike immensely but expect verbal grief, questions and criticism from non Jews if one of our violent extremists had done something similar to Manchester. Such criticism would be horrible but understandable in the circumstances. I’d be seen as the representative of the murderer’s people which is unfair but it happens. The difference is that the Jewish community would probably not produce a suicide bomber in the first place and it’s highly likely that any sort of extremism would be jumped on before it became a problem. The Islamic community doesn’t do this, it produces violent thugs and does nothing meaningful to stop them. We’d stop our nutcases, the Christians stop their nutcases but too often the followers of Islam do not. They’ve failed to learn the basic rule of living peacefully as a minority and that is to not piss off ones hosts.
You can understand anger but can you understand people advocating using weapons against Muslims as you quoted by some angry at this terrorist attack?
“That anger, I must admit is not always expressed by others in a manner that I would express this anger but I will not condemn the commentators description of the death cult of Islam it is an evil authoritarian violent ideology. ”
Again I am not talking about condemning Islam I am talking about calls for actual assaults against Muslims. How many times do I need to repeat this?
Yes I was angry and I wish we could hunt down every ISIS member and shoot them before they do such barbaric filth again.
You keep repeating criticism of Islam criticism of Islam at me as if I have said you can’t criticise Islam. I said I am against physical or verbal attacks on Muslims such as punching them in the face, and to you this is me saying “don’t criticise Islam”.
Meh.
I can understand anger and I can understand people wanting to do damage to those who carried out this atrocity. Should they do it? Of course not. This blog has consistently said that vigilantism is not the way forward however we will get vigilantism if the govt don’t do more to sort out the problems that we are having. Personally I’d rather not see sucyh things as it will probably roll up a lot of innocent people non Muslims included if we end up with disorder. I don’t think that commentator said ‘all’ Muslims they plainly stated that it was ‘those who prey for our deaths….. etc etc’ Those who call for our deaths or are ambivalent about our deaths or who appease those who do were plainly the target there. The commentator was calling out adn condemning evil. I have no moral problem with that.
Like you I agree that the ISIS types need killing again no moral problem there. But what do you do about the supporters and promoters? If they are vital to the carrying out of a plot then what should happen to them? Should they be shot as well? Not every ISIS operative is carrying a gun some are promoting ISIS, doing logisitics or are quietly supporting them or funding them. All these are guilty just as guilty as individual with the gun or the bomb. They are equally as evil and should suffer punishment preferably from the legal system / mililtary as of course I do not support violence against individual possibly innocent Muslims. I’d prefer it they and their immediate families were rounded up and shipped out to whatever Islamic hell hole would take them in. It[s better than killing them I suppose However I’m not going to be the moral relativist and say that people expressing anger at the savagery, even in language I would not choose to use myself, of Islam is equal to the carnage that is coming from Islam and it’s followers. It’s not. Rhetoric, even the sort of bloodcurdling rhetoric that I quoted to give peopel an idea of the level of anger out there is not the same as a terrorist attack. Don’t merely look at the words that people are using look at the reason why people, normally peaceful decent ordinary people in my experience, are so angry that they are voicing their frustration like this. No as I have said often I don’t want Muslims attacked I would rather bloodshed is avoided but people are righteously angry at the moment and this anger is showing as it naturally would.
Effectively at the moment it’s difficult and indeed dangerous to go out in public in Britain, get on a stage and say ‘Islam is a dangerous ideology’ People hae been nicked or attacked by Muslims for doing so and the police often do fuck all to protect the interests of the non Muslim to speak their opnion. We may have been talking at cross purposes but you appear to be pushing the definition of attack somewhat by using the word ‘verbal’. We can of course agree that it’s wrong to punch an innocent person in the face but should people be protected from unpleasant words? I don’t think so as what one person may perceive as an ‘attack’ others may merely say ‘meh’ to it
I see, hear and read horrible words all the time, stuff that churns my stomach stuff that I find personally offensive some of it very generalised and some directed personally but I don’t see these words as an ‘attack’ they are often a different opinion or even someone’s delusion (the Mossad Shoes story anyone?) and I either argue against that opinion or ignore it or laugh at it.
I do think that Muslims should hear the criticisms and understand why these criticisms are being made ie their ideology is shit adn be dissuaded from following the bits of it which are incompatible with our lands and peoples, But, groups like TM and similar ones which you claim to support, seem to have a rather sinister interest in stopping people expressing negative views of Islam or about the behaviour of individual Muslims or groups of Muslims where such behaviour is causing concern. I’d rather the press told the truth about Islam rather than th sanitised version of it that a press, neutered in the way that Tell mama and similar Islamic groups would wish, would dish up.
I’m glad that we can agree at least that Islam should be subject to criticism and maybe if ordinary Britons had been allowed to express their opinions, even controversial ones about this ideology, as they were allowed to do during the Troubles in Ulster (‘hang IRA scum’ was a common sticker on bus stops when I was growing up), then maybe the voices raised now would not be so vehement? The various ‘hate speech’ and ‘hate crime’ laws have not stopped people hating others, whether for good reasons or bad reasons, but they have acted like the lid on a pressure cooker and I worry what will happen when the safety valve blows?
The quote said an eye for an eye. Sounds to me like saying all Muslims.
You say you can understand people wanting to do harm to the perpetators but these calls for harm are not aimed at the terrorists they are aimed at all Muslims.
And what response do you think is suitable for those who murder our children those who approve of said murders? A pat on the head? A sweetie out of the jar? A visit to a deradicalisaiton counsellor with a 2:2 degree in sociology? An ‘eye for an eye’ when it come so to evil doers and evil planners is a reasonable thing to wish for in the circumstances.
Oh dear I wasn’t talking about people who murder children and who approve of such murders.
I was talking about Muslims in general, not terrorists or terrorist sympathisers. You were suggesting that Muslims in general, as in all Muslims carried out this atrocity and the woman I quoted was calling for an eye for eye as in violence against ALL Muslims, not just the terrorists and their sympathisers.
You don’t see the difference between wanting vengeance against the actual people who carried out terrorist attacks and wanting vengeance against the people who haven’t carried out such attacks or defend such attacks but just happen to be the same race or religion as the attackers?
“And what response do you think is suitable for those who murder our children those who approve of said murders? ”
In the case of the Manchester terrorist nothing can be done as it may have escaped your attention but he blew himself up so he’s gone. You cannot punish suicide bombers if they succeed in their attempts to kill and maim as they die in the act so dead people cannot be brought to justice
In the case of the Charlie Hebdo terrorists they were shot on sight, that’s just the way it goes as security forces have to act with force to protect the public.
The failed terrorists who get caught should be jailed for life, no chance of ever getting out. Just like paedophiles and regular murderers.
As for people approving of such murders you must have the power of mind reading to know who does and who doesn’t approve of terrorist murders.
Hey you probably assume the majority of Muslims approve of terrorist attacks which would mean that when Muslims get killed in such attacks their families aren’t grieving and distraught at a loss of a loved one but cheering and saying “Oh Abdul would have been happy to die for Jihad and we are glad he died for Jihad to”. Not a chance in hell they may be thinking “fucking terrorist scum killed my son and now my life has been ripped apart” No?
Even if there is surveys that show Muslims think terrorism attacks are justified you don’t know which Muslims actually think this. So we could assume all do and just round them all up and ship them out, which would include the kids who’ve never been asked what they think and probably don’t even know what a terrorist is. Or before we let Muslims in this country we could ask them “do you support terrorism?” and if they say yes then they don’t get in..but if they say no they could be lying.
The more I read about the Manchester Islamic inspired slaughter, the more upset I become. Thank goodness for you, F211, for being able to be much more measured in discussion than I can be at this time. Awesome blog site.
Thanks. May not pop in later as knackered here. I agree with you the Manchester slaughter is a watershed and the anger is growing over here with each revelation about the terror scumbag hisfamily and the immediate Muslim community that didn’t really do much to stop him even when he hung an ISIS flag in his window. I think we have to be relatively measured but I’m still pretty disgusted by Mughal trying the diversion trick after Manchester just as he did after the Rigby murder it was dishonest then and dishonest now
“The vehemence was plainly aimed at the mosques, the silent Muslims and the Quislings. The commentator is correct the blood of these innocents does call to us, ”
Call to us? The public? To do what?
How about peacefully protest or vote for some thing better than we are getting at the moment
Vote for someone different..you mean UKIP.
Just wanted to come back to something you said about Muslims staying silent. You know this is kind of what feminists say about rape and domestic violence, that men stay silent and that by doing so they are implicit in violence against women.
However when feminists say this they are met with venomous rage and accusations that they are blaming all men for rape and DV and that are even saying that all men are rapists and wife batterers
If UKIP had more robust policies against Islam then yes.
It’s an interesting analogy that you bring up there. I can certainly see what you mean but there are aspects of the analogy that dont’ work. The biggest problem I have with it is there’s a difference between silence because of fear as in the victim of DV or the close male associates of the DV offender or rapist who may also keeping silent because of fear of the offender and the silence of approval. Whilst I agree fully that some Muslims in Britain may fear communal violence for speaking up there are also a number of Muslims who are keeping silent because they give tacit approval of jihad. In one survey quoted by the Daily Wire a majority of Muslims in the UK polled would not report a jihadist or an extemist. That’s a totally different sort of silence isn’t it? http://www.dailywire.com/news/4829/how-many-british-muslims-wouldnt-report-terror-michael-qazvini
The analogy with DV/rape further falls as it is plainly bunk that two thirds of ordinary men would agree that either rape or DV was morally acceptable. The radfem argument that ‘all men are rapists’ is plainly without foundation and has been and this can be proved such (as in the busting of the ‘1:5 US college women would be sexually assaulted myth) On the other hand the survey quoted above showed that two thirds of UK Muslims would not report a close associate for a terror plot. i very much doubt that you’d find two thirds of ordinary British men who would give a wife beater or a rapist a break like Muslims seem to do with their extremists.
Feminists aren’t talking about silence as in not reporting rapists and wife beaters to the police or that men think rape or DV is morally acceptable.
They mean men staying silent and not speaking out against it.
“as of course I do not support violence against individual possibly innocent Muslims. I’d prefer it they and their immediate families were rounded up and shipped out to whatever Islamic hell hole would take them in.”
Right now I am confused. Are you now saying you want ALL Muslims and their families rounded up and shipped out? Huh?
As for ISIS supporters unless you can catch the ones openly expressing support for them you can’t get hold of all of them. Many do it in private, they wouldn’t openly express support for ISIS in public or in front of their work associates as they know people would get mad.
Just as many Nazis so not openly express their views that all non whites should be removed from the West or that Jews should be gassed etc.
You will point to someone like Tim Burton being nicked for criticising Islam but he was harassing someone via email and linking them to some pretty nasty far right websites that called for all Muslims to be ejected from the UK.
I have had email exchanges with Islamic groups that involve me criticising their general viewpoints (homosexuality etc) but I haven’t linked them to fascist groups that want them removed from the country etc.
Again there are ways and means of disagreeing with those who’s views you find dumb.
“The radfem argument that ‘all men are rapists’ is plainly without foundation and has been and this can be proved”
As is the far right argument that all Muslims are terrorists extremists etc.
A similar situation occurred when after Elliot Rodger killed two women and four men in Isla Vista feminists were accused of blaming all white men for his violence. The same people (Paul Joseph Watson etc) who say “who cares if people are mean to Muslims?” after a Islamic terrorist attack were very quick to jumps on people being mean to white men after Isla Vista.
After the Cologne assaults feminist Meghan Murphy said we should put a curfew on men at night. As mad as saying we should kick all migrant males out of the West.
the idea that all Western men are rapists is plainly ludicrous and those who say this are jusifiably criticised. However some cultures,such as Islam , produce more misogynists than others. Re the migrant invasion I thihk it’s pretty damn well confirmed now from the experience of a number of countries that these migrant males often have bad attitudes to women adn that bad attitude comes from their culture. Therefore why should we not be rid, by as humane a method as possible, of millions of men who to not respect women in the same way that Western men both do and are expected to do?
The idea that Western men are all rapists is ludicrous..but the idea that all migrant males are rapists is not.
“Therefore why should we not be rid, by as humane a method as possible, of millions of men who to not respect women in the same way that Western men both do and are expected to do?”
So you are advocating we round up all migrant males and ship them out because they may have a bad attitude towards women.
Of course you don’t know that millions of migrant men have bad attitudes towards women.
On the subject of people being arrested for criticising of Islam I see Anne Marie Waters was hauled into a cop shop a couple of nights ago.
An own goal as oh god was she milking it.
Don’t know enough about this to comment on this
Well done F211, your intelligent and measured comments are a breath of fresh air in a world polluted by this disgusting and abhorrent ideology. I have been described as open minded, peace loving and gentle but over the past 2 years my despair and profound sadness has turned to a deep hatred of this vile religion. I include Tell Mama in my list of despicable organisations related to this evil filth. The more I hear Mughal whinge the greater my hatred becomes. He is so stupid he can’t see that his constant bleatings will eventually result in an end to the funding he receives from the tax payers of Britain. The rumblings from the silent majority (which aren’t Muslims by the way) are becoming louder…and louder!
Thank you F211 for calling out Mughal and everything he stands for. Keep up the pressure!