One of the ex-Muslims that I’ve come to admire over the years is Sarah Haider. Ms Haider is one of the founders of the group the Ex-Muslims of North America and has been a high profile voice from among the ex-Muslim community.

In the video below she is being interviewed by the Triggernometry crew and it’s an interview that I found fascinating. I didn’t agree with all of it especially on the subject of breaking the links between religion and state because such links do not always have to be wrong or oppressive or be unduly problematic. But I form my view on this because I come from a country, the United Kingdom, that doesn’t separate church and state and this arrangement ensures that there’s a reasonably moderate religious and spiritual voice at the centre of society.

There’s other stuff that she has said that I do agree with but which some will find controversial. At one point she made the very valid point that religious extremists do not always operate in a vacuum. For religious extremism to go from something that is inside a person’s head into being a problem for society requires that the potential extremist be surrounded by those who hold similar religious views but maybe to a lesser degree of extremism. In other words Ms Haider is saying that the Islamic community is the sea in which the religious extremist swims. She’s probably correct here and this idea applies not just to Islam but to any religion or any all consuming ideology. In a way it is similar to how Trans rights extremists for example could not exist and have influence to the extent they do were it not for them being surrounded by a culture that gives the mental illness of transgenderism support and acceptance.

I was interested to hear Ms Haider say something similar to what I have said about Muslims now being able to access Islamic scripture in their own languages rather than just classical Arabic. Some Muslims, Ms Haider said, who dive into the texts will choose the path of violent extremism, because the fundamentals of Islam are laid out before them in a language they speak, but there are others who will look at the texts, maybe for the first time in an understandable form, become disgusted with Islam and then leave it. I find it interesting that she claims that opening up Islamic scripture in readily understandable forms has caused some Muslims to cleave closer to Islam whilst causing others to reject it.

One thing that particularly caught my ear in this interview was her description of the difference between Islamic communities in the United States of America and places like the United Kingdom. Ms Haider said that there was in the USA much more in the way of integration of Muslims with general society as such integration was both expected by the society and essential in order to survive in America. This is a radically different situation to the one in the UK. In the UK there is not only not any expectation of integration but it’s possible for a Muslim to live in Britain on welfare in a Muslim ghetto and never be required to give up the ghetto lifestyle. The general harshness of America with regards expectations from society and the niggardly welfare state, forces Muslims to interact with general society and thereby reduce the size of the sea that potential extremists have to swim in.

Here’s this excellent interview by the Triggernometry boys with Ms Haider.